Runs decent when outside air is warm, runs bad when OI is cold.

[Arctic Grayling]

Have seen many of the same symptoms that I am having on other posts.  Tried most of the standard remedies. Thought that I had found the problem when we tested the Idle Air Control on the bench and had zero Ohms (The manual calls for 47.7 - 58.3Ω @ 73° F). Then I saw a post somewhere that said to test the component by plugging it in and watching to see if the plunger moves in and out once the key is turned on.....Well it did and now I am in a quandry! Is the thing bad or not? Ohms check like the manual says or plugging it in?

Arctic Grayling

[Arctic Grayling]

Ok, I need to elaborate a little on my problem.  Started on a cold crisp (28F) Alaska spring morning last year. I knew it was going to warm up to a balmy 58F that day so I rode the bike to work for the first time that year.  Started fine, idled fine, putt putt out the garage I go.  About a mile from the house the bike starts cutting out, missing and dies.  Start pushing it back home (its 4:30 am).  Half way home I am tired and decide to try the bike again. Starts and runs fine home.  Do the normal snooping around at the - gas (drained and new), battery cables (rerouted and inspected), voltages etc….nothing.
A couple weeks later I try the drive to work again. The air is warmer and I have less drastic results.  The bike runs rough but gets me to work. When I come home, the temp is in the high fifties and the bike runs like a champ (my commute is about 18 miles).
Each day the same, rough in the morning good in the evening.  Then comes fall, temps start nose diving and the bike runs worse until I am back to pushing it home in the morning one day.
I had to change the plugs once as they were fouled, black and sooty along with the stove pipe tail (exhaust).
Started checking all the wiring for shorts and the ECU components on the bench with an Ohm meter thus the Idle Air Control question.

Other maybe unrelated problems in the past –
Changed the stator at about 17000 miles.
Had to change the front engine mounts twice.
Had to reroute the oil breather tube as the bike was puking so much oil out into the air cleaner that it was starving the engine of air.     

[wytfut]

Realize I'm not near the top dog on these beauties.... but a couple of things come to mind....
In the mean time I emailed Jamie Jones to take a look at your problem... so he'll jump in once he reads it...

This one doesn't strike as the norm for our X's.... so I'm shooting in the dark a bit...

Does your X have the superXtune? .... if its the factory tune, and with those cold temps you ride.... it may not be enough ..... I highly recommend it...

With it running rich (spark plugs, exhaust sooty)..... I'm leaning towards the oxygen sensor as a possible also......

with your puke issue, and you realized that it was starving due to oil soak..... I'm thinking your probably checked/cleaned that cleaner up real good.

And lastly..... I was wondering if it maybe a fuel issue. Almost to the point, is it good fuel? I'm thinking towards something in the fuel doesn't like the colder temps, and is gunking up the injectors.

Have you rode this machine all those miles? or are you a new owner.....

Bruce

[Arctic Grayling]

Bought the bike new in 2000 in Los Anchorge. I live in the interior of Alaska 100 miles from the nearest town of any size (Fairbanks) so I have done all the maintenance on it my self.
Got rid of my 42 flat head when I bought this bike so I am new to all the widgets and gadgets on these new bikes.
They do change the fuel from summer to winter up here but I have gone through several tanks with the same results.
I have the Loughlin tune running right now. Don’t think that is the problem because I bought the program so that I could trouble shoot the bike when it first started giving me the problems.
I am still tracing and checking wires in my spare time (work 7 - 12's) but was courious about the Ohm readings on the Idle Air.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 Kevin

[Jumper]

Do you have an updated air cleaner set-up vs. the throttle body support bracket? If your X is original, you may want to update it and replace the intake seals when you do.  Get rid of the stock /Laughin tune and update to SuperXTune! Tune your X for your conditions as well..

Jumper

[Arctic Grayling]

I have Bobbys air cleaner. Installed it the second year that I had the bike.
So do you think that an air leak may be causing the problems?
Is the superXtune new? Will I need to down load it or was it in the original tune package that I bought two years ago?

Kevin

[wytfut]

Kevin,
     I'm still scratchin' my head over this one. Its just not a typical EH issue. But I'm not going to give up....
     As for air leaks..... on top of the throttle body is a rubber cap, on a test port. If your's hasn't cracked and fallen off, it should be due. I've replaced mine with a vinyl cap...
     With Bobby's air cleaner.... I don't know of any other air leaks other than what Jumper stated... intake gaskets...
      The superXtune has been out for a while, and if I remember correctly the ol' Mclaughlin tune was Bobby's? ... SuperXtune can be purchased here:   http://stores.homestead.com/AtlanticEHLLC/-strse-SuperXtune/Categories.bok    Jamie/Marty can help you find the correct tune once you purchase it. Yeah its a bit pricey but that program is really nice to have. It'll actually let you trouble shoot, and fine tune.
      In the mean time I contacted Jamie to read your posts.... and he's thinking about it, trying to figure out the problem.....
      Presently they are preparing for their annual X roast and ride.... but he'll be in touch....

Bruce

[Arctic Grayling]

Thanks Bruce. The rubber cap was falling apart and I replaced it. I do have Jamie/Marty program. I purchased it when I first started having the problems.  I thought that I got the Laughlin tune from there. I'm going to order some parts from them in the next few days. What got me thinking it might be the idle air control is that someone posted similar problems last month and it was suggested that they check the idle air control. I didn't think air leak at first because it was running so rich but I have heard that the ECM will try to compensate for the lean mixture and pump a bunch of fuel? like I said earlier I'm not very familiar with all the electronics on the new bikes. I guess that I'm learning now weather I want to or not.
With the air filter and throttle body off I can move the intake manifold a small amount up and down. I would assume that there would be a little play to allow for vibration and heat expansion between the two cylinders?
The fish are back in the river so now I am trying to split my free time between fishing, my regular job, running our lodge and working on the bike!
Again, thanks for the help.

Kevin

[wytfut]

You are correct, there is a little play on the intake. Being you are that far along on disassemble, I'd pull it off and check those gaskets as Jumper suggested.

I just wandered out to my shop and turned on the computer out there, and you are correct the Mclaughlin is on the superxtune cd.

I just reflashed an ECU from New Mexico, with tune 8330. Via Jamie's recommendation. I'm pretty primitive on the computer issues, but Jamie has helped me along significantly. He had his hands in developing the 8330 tune, and highly recommended it. It was on my CD program. If you CD doesn't have it..... I'm not sure where to get it other than calling Marty to find out. Tim the developer of the superXtune, website is gone. All a bit confusing for me...

That particular tune helped that New Mexico X .... well it was like day and nite.

Bruce

[Traveller]

Hi Kevin,

Sorry for the delay guys, been a bit busy here.

I'm afraid that Bruce may have more faith in my psychic diagnostic skills than I deserve, but together we'll figure this out.

Given your description of the failure, we might suspect a weak sensor or a short within the wiring harness, but a more thorough investigation may yield other clues. First, check for failure codes stored in the ECM, even if the check engine light is not on. Make sure that you have at least 180 steps available for the IAC and that the Engine Temp and Intake Air Temp Sensors are functioning properly.

You can use the diagnostic functions of the SuperXtune program to test the IAC function on the bike (no need to disassemble the TB) as well as read the voltage of the sensors to ascertain their condition.

Bruce's instinct is good regarding the O2 sensor, they normally last far beyond 20,000 miles, but the Laughlin tune (which was a temporary patch to prevent that embarrassing stalling during the Laughlin Rally back in the day) does dump a lot of raw fuel into the motor, washing the oil off of the cylinder walls and fouling the O2 sensor. I have never recommended using it. The 8352 Tune offers the best overall performance, significantly lowers the operating temperatures, cures the stalling problem and produces the least wear and tear on the motor.

So, at this point I would suggest that you install the 8352 Tune. Then call me and I'll suggest appropriate settings for your bikes' configuration. This will eliminate many potential problems and facilitate a proper diagnosis.

Jamie Jones
Atlantic E-H, llc
540-298-9310

[wytfut]

Jeepers Jamie... thought I was gonna pass out holding my breath so long.... hee hee hee...

And as always you are correct on the tune.... 8352.... told you I was struggling with that program...

[Jumper]

ANY UPDATE?! Just curious...
Jumper

[wytfut]

I contacted this guy via email.... to see if he had given up, or was pursueing a different direction.

As this was a very odd to me incident.... I told him to contact Jamie direct via phone or email. He replied that he would and things were busy at the moment.

I really would like to know what the problem is, for my own personal info bank (wooden head).

As Jamie stated in an email... its hard to help if the questions aren't asked.... not much more beyond that can be done.

See you at the Rally buddy!!
Bruce

[dkfj984eds]

Possible signs of a Stator getting ready to crap out. It may still be charging, but if it stays on, chances are it's time to replace it. They are a life limited wear item and everyone should have a spare in their parts stash.
Make sure your cables are tight too.

-------------------------



Occhiali Sole Uomo

[Arctic Grayling]

Ok, here is what I have so far.
Installed new intake gaskets from the air cleaner to the heads.  Installed new IACV.
Checked and noted faults.  Cleared faults. Installed 8352 tune.
Reset IACV, throttle position sensor and fuel trim.
Started engine.  Ran smooth and steady at idle.  Allowed engine to warm up while observing operation on computer. Parameters all looked good to me.
Began rolling on the throttle, ran smooth.  As temperature came up and RPM’s were increased, the engine would began running rough and then stall unless I feathered the throttle.  The engine would continue to run rough and not idle at all.
After the engine had been shut down for a minute or two it would start and idle smooth again until the throttle was advanced and RPM’s increased then it would once again stall.
Did this several times with the same results.

Note: while reassembling the intake manifold I noticed that the bracket that goes between the heads and supports the throttle body (not sure if this is a Baldwin part or original) was keeping the throttle body from making a tight gasket seal to the intake manifold.  I had to loosen all four intake manifold to head bolts, tighten the bracket support bolts and throttle body to manifold bolts, then re-torque the intake manifold bolts.
I could see where the support bracket had grooves that fit onto the heads and if they weren’t lined up perfectly  it was impossible to get the spacers installed and a gasket tight fit.
This probably has nothing to do with my engine problem but was curious if this was a problem anyone else had noted.

Kevin