Author Topic: batteries  (Read 1350 times)

Offline wytfut

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batteries
« on: September 28, 2023, 09:04:10 AM »
Good morning everyone.....
there has been very little thoughts here and there about batteries thru the years. It wasn't here on this site, but the old "resource" site on yahoo.
If I remember correctly, some about the "gel" batteries that became available on the market. And they were poo poo'd by folks here in the know....   thats cool, and I excepted that. As reasoning was that our charging system couldn't handle the tech.
Since then I've gained a little knowledge about batteries... not much mind you, but more than I had previously.
I got information from a podcast I listen to, that the YUSA battery company is one of the top motorcycle batteries out there. Our community has also to a certain extent supported that line of thought, as that was OEM to our bikes.
I've had some experience with AGM (acid glass mat) in recent years, and noted that ebay was now selling YUSA AGM batteries on ebay this past spring. With hi praise for the brand, I've purchased one..... with no issues so far at close to 3k miles. My volt meter has been reading from what I can tell normal. Advantage to the AGM batteries is life....   historically speaking, its crazy tech. Battery will appear to go bad, take it out of bike... shake it up, toss it about gently.... put back on charger, and its good to go again.
This week Skiii... was asking about the "lithium" motorcycle batteries, if our X's could handle the tech. I couldn't answer him.....   He found one that had a lot of positive reveiws..... and thought about buying one. Size, longivity, cranking amps.... all sounds good in the ads. Skii.... didn't follow thru as there are no comments here or any where discussing if our bikes can handle them.
Any thoughts out there related to the lithiums?

I'll be watching.... thanx
Bruce
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Offline Donkey Hotey

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Re: batteries
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2023, 12:48:51 PM »
My observations and considerations, in no particular order:

There are a couple of "Lithium" technologies out there: Lithium Ion and Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePo). The LiFePo batteries were the ones that came out maybe ten years ago? Everyone thought they were awesome, never die, weigh nothing, etc, etc. If they had delivered all these promises, I'd have expected everyone to adopt them. Instead what we've seen is few bought them, the ones out there have their own issues and they've never really caught on.

One of the issues with LiFePo batteries is that they don't have full output when they're cold. I forget the numbers but, I believe the cranking amps start dropping off below 50 degrees. Nothing like coming out of brisk hotel morning to your bike in 35 degree weather and not being able to start it. You can turn on the lights and let them run for a few minutes. This allegedly 'warms up' the battery and then it will start. I don't know since I haven't had one.

I got a thrown away LiFePo battery I found in a recycling bin. I took it home to disassemble and see what's inside. I was amazed to find regular D-sized cells, soldered together to make a 12-13V bank. It includes a charge manager board that absorbs the excess going to each cell. What that's needed for is balancing the cells and not overcharging any one cell which would permanently damage the battery. What had failed in that battery was not the cells but, that charge manager. So while the battery part should have this claimed long-life, the stupid charge manager board didn't. That ended up damaging some of the cells, which killed the whole thing.

So LiFePo technology was kind of out. What about Lithium Ion batteries? Well, they are very particular about how they're charged and if you overcharge them, they catch fire. We've all seen the news stories of electric bicycles catching fire inside peoples garages and apartments. The last thing I want is a fire source like that on any of my bikes. This is aside from the fact that our Lithium Ion batteries in our phones rarely last more than 3-4 years.


Its so bad that I have an old iPhone that I use for music in the garage. The battery is toast but, I don't dare leave that thing plugged into the charger except when I'm listening to it. It gets unplugged and the battery is dead literally overnight. I've read that Lithium Ion does best when always used between 20 and 80%. Fully charging and fully discharging them damages them.

Given all the negatives with the competing technologies, I stick to regular Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) batteries for now.
Greg

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0738 since 2018 (Babe) 1940 since 2019 (Sinclair) 1555 since 2022 (Genesis)0315 since 2022 (Freedom)

Offline wytfut

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Re: batteries
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2023, 12:31:23 PM »
And here I thought I was trying new territory with my AGM...

Thanx for you knowledge Greg!!
Bruce
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Offline Xczar

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Re: batteries
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2023, 03:48:08 PM »

Howdy folks,

From my readings, these new lithium`s are all good. But that`s just from `My Readings`. They all seem to have higher levels of BMS now. Battery Management System, which prevent under and over charging, and I guess other things. Appears some of these batteries are adjustable for different sizing. I have not read anything about someone having any type of failure from vibration, but that is one thing I am weary of, as these batteries appear to have a lot of circuitry?
Had hoped someone here had experience with these new batteries from reputable companies, Noco, Shorai and Full Spectrum Power.
Link below is from Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B091P96DDB?ref=emc_p_m_5_i

Offline EBRXCELMOTUSIOR

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Re: batteries
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2024, 10:07:44 PM »
Just for info, I installed an X2 LiFePo battery from BatteriesPlus almost three years ago in my ?X? when I acquired the bike and it is still going strong with NO problems:)

Offline wytfut

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Re: batteries
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2024, 10:12:14 AM »
I love it when we get conversation on here.... especially techie stuff that relates to our bikes. Mostly because I'm not techie..... lol.
EBRXCEL.....  thanx so much for the update on your purchase.
I'll be honest though.....  I'll wait until I see more voices before I purchase one. My experience in the past 25 years with our Bikes is that sometimes things work on some, and sometimes they don't.
I get that from my personal feeling that our bikes are individual prototypes..... I have nothing to back that up with though.

I'd like to add onto my AGM post, that if your AGM battery does go south.... that after your toss it around a bit to get it to wake up/recover. There is an additional step that helps....    When you put the charger on it, hook up a good fully charged battery also within the chain of charging. Somehow the "smart" charger recognizes, and actually throws a charge. I have no idea how that all works.... but it has twice now for me....

Love to see more info on those lifepo lith batteries....

And a toss to Dennis "fat jesus" Bennet. I still have no clue how your OEM original battery lasted over 15 years.  An impossible miracle....

Bruce
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PS.... everyone note Chucks interveiw with Frank is now up on youtube, and this sites youtube channel. 
Bruce
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Offline EBRXCELMOTUSIOR

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Re: batteries
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2024, 08:45:36 PM »
Of the Eleven bikes I own, Nine of them have LiFePo?s in them. The one in my 2014 EBR is ten years old an still(knock on wood) going strong:)