timing issues

[hardman]

I had the usual oil leak from the base of rear cylinder,so stripped it down and found one of cylinder head bolt thread stripped so put in a time sert and torques up nicely now,only problem I think I may have timing issues,(only runs on front pot)ive downloaded service manual but essential diagrams for timing section are missing? has any one else had issues with service manual artwork missing/ ? if anyone can talk me through it ,cheers peter hardman lyhtam st,annes ,u.k. bike 0685

[Berlin Bob]

i sent ya an e-mail ...let me know if ya got it

[Jumper]

www.superxparts.com

Jamie can give you some answers...

Jumper
 

[hardman]

thanks for info,got pics for timing and was one tooth out as presumed line on idle gear lined up with mark on cylinder head,but diagrams show line has to be between R  and line on top idle gear,did all this and still no firing on rear cylinder,compression test ok,spark ok,swapped injectors to eliminate that one,new plugs.......I did notice I have a spare electrical connection under tank which doesn't seem to go anywhere,one with the metal clip in and 2 wires? is that normal?    HELP !!! lol

[wytfut]

hopefully someone will jump in here....
you've got compression.... which means valves are opening and shutting
You've got spark.... which means if you have fuel it'll fire....

have you check circuitry on rear injector connector? is it carrying a signal?  another direction.... is the bike throwing a code?   shoot it with the superXtune to trouble shoot it....  if you have it...

the xtra connector by the back bone could be a couple of things depending on what options you have on your bike, and where its from...:  both of these were labeled in white paint when released from the factory:  LTS.... means lite bar, if you don't have one. And purge is for california bikes.

check your schematic for colors on those connectors just to be sure....     down load the schematic? 

you need to know if that rear injector is spraying....   

[Donkey Hotey]

You said the compression checked but, how do you know that? Did you measure it with a gauge? What kind of pressure are you getting for the front and rear cylinders?

You got the whole timing procedure for setting both cylinders?

The sequence is that you need to set the front cylinder, then rotate the engine through to the next firing cycle for the rear cylinder and set that the same way. Even if you didn't take the front jug apart, I'm pretty sure you have to start with the timing marks on the front cylinder in order to get the rear set to the proper firing stroke.

[hardman]

thanks guys for the info......still struggling,think I had the air sensor and cylinder temp sensor on the wrong way round,their both the same fitting and in a similar area,thought id sorted it as had rear firing for a while,however,bike doesn't run well no power and stalling,also engine doesn't start correctly ie /from cold doesn't rev high then drop of to idle?have to give it throttle,its also really loud too?double and triple checked timing,had pics from marty in Atlanta,im I right in saying that the "R" and the timing mark on the top idler cog (the one  in between to two cams ) has to be either side of the mark on cylinder head and when the tensioner is fitted it brings the mark on idler gear  in line with the mark on cylinder head?ive had a guage on compression and both cylinders seem to be about the 170 to 180 ,new plugs,ive changed the injectors round to eliminate bad injector,......is there a test to see if the injector is spraying etc???ive tried to download wiring diagram but lettering too small and blurred and cant make out the wiring colours,has anyone a clearer diagram I can download? cheers guys

[wytfut]

Its a rain day here for me (no work).... and I just may run out to the shop to check out your question on timing... (I keep my X tech stuff out there)
As for testing the rear injector circut......   I'd take some aligator patch cords to it from my voltmeter.... and fling the starter... see if any fluctuation on meter....   I'm sure there is possibly a more technical way of doing it.....   but I'm simple....
As for the schematic down load... I was going to copy mine off to you, but checked this sites copy....   And its loud and clear here....     that makes me wonder if you are trying to communicate off of a phone screen, now that would be a challenge....
Do you have the superXtune? Do you have OBDI scanner? both may help here....

I'll run out to the shop and look up my timing stuff, that I got from Jamie years back....    biggest thing I remember about the timing was it was very hard to see visually.... 

[wytfut]

Hardman,
    from your question on the timing.... and what I'm interpeting... yes, you are correct. I remember that (only after I looked everything up in the book and past emails), as it was part of the visual hard part....
Bruce

[Donkey Hotey]

Lets get back to basics:

The bike ran fine before you took it apart? How long was it apart? I'm trying to eliminate the possibility that fuel gummed up in the injectors, seals dried out, etc.

Could you have damaged anything on the wire harness? IE: did you forget to unplug something before you pulled the engine and yanked on the harness inadvertently? This could have damaged a wire somewhere. Other than that, the harness should also be exactly as before you started.

You've posted numerous times about setting the timing but, did you start from the marks being lined up on the front cylinder, then rotating 310 degrees as the timing procedure spells out? If not, you could still have the rear cylinder timed on the wrong stroke.

You said it was louder and the two cylinders firing 50 degrees apart is the only thing I can think of that would make it seem louder (remember: it ran fine before you took it apart). That might also cause the idle problems as well. There might not be enough inertia in the crank to rotate through both exhaust strokes and then compress two cylinders at the same time.

Also: you are correct that some of the connectors are interchangeable and easy to mix up. On reassembly of mine, I verified the color codes on each plug before I plugged them into where I thought they mated. It wouldn't hurt to retrace those steps as well.

[Donkey Hotey]

A couple of other things came to mind in the past couple of days:

You do realize that the cam positions and everything get done differently on the rear head than the front one, right? The rear head has the intake and exhaust in opposite locations (exhaust goes out the rear instead of the front). That means that the lobes, marks, etc, will look different than the picture for the front head.

I'm just pointing that out because it would be easy to assume that the front and rear head should looks similar when the cams are installed correctly. They don't.

Also: when you start the engine, does the rear header and cylinder head get hot at all? There is no single better way to tell if that cylinder is getting fuel and spark. If things are getting hot, fuel is burning. Then it's a matter of why the burn isn't being turned into forward energy. That will come back to cam timing.