Author Topic: Rebirth of Excelsior-Henderson announced in February...Real or pipe dream?  (Read 5275 times)

Offline smoke

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Nothing posted on this website. Lots of naysayers everywhere else. The world economy is not on fire the way it was in 1999. Looks more like its going to way on fire France 1789.

However, Keanu Reeves is making motorcycles and Confederate is still around. Perhaps going small and boutique is the way to come back. Electric looks to finally be a legitimate market, but unless one were to also buy out what's left of either Mission Motors or Motoczysz and re-brand it as Excelsior-Henderson, no electric there. (Indian will likely continue to develop internally the Brammo purchase for an electric Indian).

Any reason no mention here about E-H making a go again (or at least noting that someone claiming to get E-H going again has made an announcement)?

Offline wytfut

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I'd love to see more discussion on this topic....   I'd think that anyone who loves the brand probably has thought of several scenarios .....
I don't know of ANY comments from Dan which is rightly so...... IF... NOTE IF the newsworthy article earlier in the year carries any weight to itself or not, Dan can't comment. As it could jeopardize what ever actions are taking place.
When My place of employment (Lincoln Telephone and Telegraph) got bought out back in the early 90's by Alltel ....   Mum was the word on every and any issues concerning it....   1 comment from anyone of the higher up could easily cost millions on the sale to the owners and stock holders. 
This does cause a certain amount of anxiety to everyone who is involved, but how else would one do it?

These articles bring lots of questions to my mind. Not concerning whether it would make it or not, but how do us current owners fit in.
As you pointed out.... its definitely a confusing time for tech. and business. Some of the businesses that appeared to be strong on their feet, and now wobbling (i.e. Elio). Others who appeared to be nothing more than printed paper are still around and not doing to to bad (Moto, Norton).

My examples may not be real up to date, but you can see the point. Unfortunately I don't read much magazines anymore to back up my examples.

I'd like to see some more comments/ideas on this subject.....
Bruce
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Berlin Bob

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I am with you  bruce  !!   lets all just hope ...I do not want these bikes go down in history like back when schwinn closed ...it would be a lost cause on Excelsior Henderson and Dan Hanlon ,if not  brought to life again ...you capitalize  on your mistakes ???   and go forward in a different approach

berlin  bob

Offline franknsr

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Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the press release was only to announce that the EH rights and IP would be shopped around, not that something definitive was happening.
I'll admit that I was one of the naysayers on another rebirth right now, but have come to realize this could be an excellent time if it is done right. Opinions would vary widely on just exactly what "done right" should mean. ;-)


Offline wytfut

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You very well maybe right..
Been a while since i read it (on Facebook I believe)
Used a lot of business terminoloy, that made it a poor read for me!
Bruce
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Offline smoke

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I read that the original factory was 170,000sq feet. Lots of empty manufacturing real estate available at that size, or even a bit smaller. 3D printing and other software makes development so much faster and cheaper than 20 years ago.

The market is not screaming out demanding another heavy cruiser, but the Super-X and American-X can be made easier today than 20 years ago on a smaller scale. Getting an engineering team/investors together to make a full go of it is another matter in the current economy.

There is nothing wrong with being niche and making only a few dozen to a few hundred bikes each year so long as the business was streamlined and had effective cash flow management. Confederate lives, so there is a way to make it happen at a scale that is supportable.

Offline Donkey Hotey

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Re: Rebirth of Excelsior-Henderson announced in February...Real or pipe dream?
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2017, 01:53:49 AM »
And time to perhaps give this discussion a little bump.  :)

When I had the engine apart on 1525, I looked at it with an eye for how viable a larger displacement, counterbalanced version could be, within the general architecture of the engine that exists. That suggests something that would fit in the same frame and look similar, if not identical.

It looks like there is real estate in the lower, front crankcase, where a counterbalancer could be designed in. Because of the cylinder bore sizes and their relationship to the cases, cams and timing drive, the easiest way to more displacement would be more stroke. I don't think you could get to 110 cubic inches but, 100 should be do-able in those cases. Going to more bore would require moving the cam drive further outboard, along with a number of other components that would have to follow.

It's also a different world with respect to emissions and the X ran hot. You'd almost guarantee that you'd need to go water cooling this time. Maybe it would be water-assisted cooling like the Milwaukee Eight, or there could be a form-fitting radiator stashed between the frame down tubes to take care of full water jackets. I think the exterior look of the engine could be done, with integral water jackets and cosmetic fins, to look like what we already have.

Overall, the bike had a unique look and that could be maintained with a freshened-up engineering package underneath it.

Today I was riding down the highway on 333 and a guy on a brand new Road Glide started to pass a multi-lane area. He came up hard but, then throttled back just as he came up on my side. It was either the pause of knowing what the X was and having never seen one, or not knowing what it was in the first place.

When he looked over and caught my eye, I got an odd wave as I saw him look down at the front end. Only after completing his pass did I see the paper dealer placard still on the back of his bike.
Greg

1525 since 2000 (Molly) 1989 since 2012 (Jennie) 0333 since 2015 (Beulah) 1663 since 2017 (Deadwood)
0738 since 2018 (Babe) 1940 since 2019 (Sinclair) 1555 since 2022 (Genesis)0315 since 2022 (Freedom)

Offline blackheart

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Re: Rebirth of Excelsior-Henderson announced in February...Real or pipe dream?
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2017, 10:36:03 PM »
I bought my bike in 2012 after having known of them in 1998 when i saw non operable versions at their display.  5 yrs later i took a new job and to my surprise a fellow at work had one, although he didnt trust it and had a new hd on the way.  That fall when his relative was in town they were riding together and the tranny went out tearing up a few items.  I machined new bushings for him after he got a new gear or two and he was set.  Later he had the battery case short out and roast some wiring.  He knew another fellow local who had one and had purchased another, so i made new bushings for that one too.  That fellow ended up selling the newer crate bike but eventually his old standby gave up the ghost with head issues.  Not sure if he ever fixed it.

Despite all the issues I found myself wanting one so I found 307 for a decent price and i was set.  I was told it was a demo bike but had no idea it was only the 14th bike on the build list.  I didnt ride it much not knowing if any fixes had been completed.  None had, so i opened her up in 15 at 6250 miles and rebushed the tranny, reflashed the ECM via Atlantic, put in the scavenge pump drive coupling elastomer, and shift drum cam.  I also did the clutch slave rebuild , but no pick up tube.

I finally got a decent windshield on it this year and now have 12500 miles on it by weeks end.  Ill have to say im actually growing fond of the bike. Great clutch, handles good, rides good. Power is ok.  But I still wonder how long it will go as Atlantic advises checking compression at 25k related to valve issues / cooling for exhaust.  It should be noted Polaris cooled the head wifh oil and HD cited inability to cool the casting between the two exhaust valves as the necessity for a liquid circuit to cool the area around the exhaust sests. 

This issue presumably needs fixed for long term life.  Regarding the comment about limited room for more bore size the cam drive could be a single chain instead of a dizzying array of gears, countershafts, sprockets, chain's more countershafts and finally the gear driven cams.

Im gonna keep running 307 as my daily commute and see what breaks first.  Im running the factory accessories oil cooler in series with a 10 row jagg on the right frame down tube.  I avoid riding in much over 90 degree heat.

I still like it.  Hopefully oil consumption holds.
S/N 0307, 14th X assembled factory demonstrator



Offline smoke

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If not sold, what is the current status? Its not like current ICE motorcycles are on fire, so a re-re-startup without tangible assets cannot be experiencing investors beating down the door. India has Hero/Royal Enfield and China has what China has.

Looks like $3mil is a wee bit to high.

Offline wytfut

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Current status is the branding is still up for sale...
Lots of RUMORS surrounding Super X branding/trademarks/copyrights...

RUMOR:
H.D., Polaris, Bombardier......   were all in the running to purchase, then shelve it, to eliminate competition.

RUMOR: A large Indian company wanted to buy, so as to gain an American Name prepping their sales for the first time within our borders.

I did a little research... and left scratching my head, wondering why Dunstal published this article/release the way they did. ALL other sources got it right, the next day.

Oh well..... the media is a fickle bunch.

A lot of us have been mulling this over, wondering where this will all lead. Impossible task....    Could be a very good thing for OUR community. Then again, we could be starting all over trying to gather links to each other.   

Possibly make some of our more obsolete parts, etc.     Time will tell.....
Bruce
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