Author Topic: Welcome RoachCliff and initial help with fuel pump  (Read 2842 times)

Offline Donkey Hotey

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Welcome RoachCliff and initial help with fuel pump
« on: September 10, 2022, 01:07:37 AM »
Welcome to our newest member and owner, RoachCliff. I saw your request for help over on Bookface but, since lots of the technical people won't participate on that platform, I'll try to answer your questions here. I've hijacked and reposted your pictures below.

Your fuel pump might be a goner but, not that entire assembly. To be clear: there are replacement pumps available that you'll then assemble onto that structure. The only reason I suspect it might not be saveable is the rust on everything. That has probably extended to the steel parts inside, including the check valve ball and motor shafts. If it was just gummed up from non-use, it might have been fine.

It's also been out of the bike at least once. The safety wire you see holding that portion of the fuel transfer line against the plastic regulator body was one of the minor after-factory fixes all of us needed to do. Safety wire works. Others use a zip tie for the same purpose.  Fixing this post: do not use zip ties inside the fuel tank. I just had one fail due to softening in the gasoline. It took less than 12 months. Safety wire or maybe a hose clamp only. The idea is to hold that 90 degree fitting in place so it doesn't pop off from pressure. It's not much force but, it needs suspenders to keep its pants from falling down.

The black strainer you have at the bottom is the factory one and as far as I know, they aren't available. That's why everyone uses the later, rectangular sock that Atlantic sells. The rectangular sock also appears to be a finer mesh. Since this is the only fuel filtration on our bikes, it's a good choice even though it looks kind of mickey mouse.

The rust on the pressure regulator concerns me. Again: that means the internal valve parts are probably also that rusty and will leak. I would replace it. Atlantic has them. I believe EHPARTS.NET has them. Probably around $50. You carefully pry the spring clips off the plastic body and it pops off.

There are two o-rings hiding between that regulator and the plastic body. They are notorious for cracking, leaking and causing all kinds of running issues from low fuel pressure. They need to be replaced. That's two o-rings.

Between the plastic body and the fuel pump snout, there are two more o-rings (same size as one-another). They also need to be replaced. That's a total of four o-rings.

You should probably replace the big one sealing the assembly to the fuel tank as long as it's out. That makes a total of five o-rings.

The plastic corrugated transfer hose looks to be original. They crack and fail. When they do the bike stops in its tracks. I've had two fail this way and do the tow truck ride of shame. Before you go removing it, you might measure the brass nipple diameter with a caliper. Most bikes have an 8mm hose which is commonly available. One of mine has a 7mm hose. That one is very hard to get. I had to order ten of them from China. There was literally no other source. If you need a 7mm let me know.

You would need to cut and release those Oetiker clamps to get it off. For reassembly, original Oetiker clamps can be purchased. Or you can use normal screw clamps. I prefer the Oetiker for originality but, you need the proper crimper tool to set them.

Atlantic EH can rebuild that assembly. Berlin Bob will be along shortly. He also rebuilds them. You can also do it yourself from the information above. If you do, DO NOT DAMAGE THAT PLASTIC REGULATOR BODY. That's the one thing that is hard to replace. Be very gentle removing the Oetiker clamp from that end.

Welcome aboard. We want to see pics of the bike.  ;D
« Last Edit: September 18, 2022, 10:48:32 PM by Donkey Hotey »
Greg

1525 since 2000 (Molly) 1989 since 2012 (Jennie) 0333 since 2015 (Beulah) 1663 since 2017 (Deadwood)
0738 since 2018 (Babe) 1940 since 2019 (Sinclair) 1555 since 2022 (Genesis)0315 since 2022 (Freedom)

Offline roachcliff

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Re: Welcome RoachCliff and initial help with fuel pump
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2022, 08:08:21 AM »
Thanks so much for the info. I looked at Atlantic, but regulators are on BO. I see they are at the other sources you mentioned as well. I got everything apart successfully w/o any damage. I plan on replacing the pump, hose, all o-rings and regulator. I also have a lot of the factory liner coming off, so I am looking into having it removed, and relined with Tank Renu. Has anyone successfully removed the liner at home?

Offline Donkey Hotey

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Re: Welcome RoachCliff and initial help with fuel pump
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2022, 10:12:06 AM »
I'm no help on the liner. I haven't redone one and personally find them to be unnecessary. The Japanese don't use them. I believe Behr also did our sheetmetal and tank lining is their thing. Go look at Triumph, Ducati and BMW tanks and you'll find the same red lining.

As for the fuel pump and regulator: I have not shared this on the open forum but, whoever the supplier was that made our fuel pump assemblies, appears to have also made the pumps for a number of Buells (if not all of them).

See the pictures below. That is a fuel pump from a 2003-2007 Buell XB. All the important components look like they match ours, including the plastic regulator body. I just checked the numbers against one of my pumps sitting here. The regulator is the same pressure (338 kPa or 50 PSI). 135-15 matches between their part and mine. The only number that doesn't match is the four digit code. Since mine is 3298, I'm going to guess that is probably a manufacture date code (probably 329th day of (9)8 since the Buell is 1544 which is likely 154th day of (0)4).

In my mind: I'm convinced they're the same parts but, I haven't bought Buell parts to find out.

With that said, here is a supplier I stumbled onto who has the entire kit with a new regulator, pump, strainers and screw clamps.

https://www.highflowfuel.com/quantum-intank-efi-fuel-pump-w-regulator-for-buell-firebolt-xb12r-xb12s-2003-2010-replaces-p0166-k/

 I have not bought a regulator or pump from them but, they are my go-to for the corrugated hoses and filters. The kit doesn't include the hose you need. You need a 8mm x 260 hose.

With all of this said: these could be inferior Chinese parts. The aftermarket replacement parts market is scary right now. I could write a long essay about parts recently purchased for auto repairs that were bad right out of the box. For under $100, I'd probably give it a go but, also keep an eye on it before I took off on a cross-country trip.

Oh and two thumbs-up on the bike! She's a beauty: the only year and color to use silver pinstripes. All the other pinstripe colors got used on at least two paint schemes.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2022, 10:21:41 AM by Donkey Hotey »
Greg

1525 since 2000 (Molly) 1989 since 2012 (Jennie) 0333 since 2015 (Beulah) 1663 since 2017 (Deadwood)
0738 since 2018 (Babe) 1940 since 2019 (Sinclair) 1555 since 2022 (Genesis)0315 since 2022 (Freedom)

Offline lockrolling

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Re: Welcome RoachCliff and initial help with fuel pump
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2022, 04:20:52 PM »
Greg you are just a bubbling cauldron of good information! ;D

Offline roachcliff

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Re: Welcome RoachCliff and initial help with fuel pump
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2022, 05:41:52 PM »
Donkey Hotey, I think I may try that Buell setup. From what I have been reading it seems like its essentially the same parts. I assume that other round piece in your pics is a fuel filter that is inline before it exits the tank? Thanks so much for the info!
As far as the tank goes my local Tank Renew will remove the old liner, and reline it for $300. I'll probably just have them do it.

Berlin Bob

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Re: Welcome RoachCliff and initial help with fuel pump
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2022, 11:14:26 AM »
welcome !!!   Berlin Bob here... yes I do rebuild these pumps...normally  I have one  to send ya asap   give me a shout 443-783-0920 or
rcsandruck@msn.com

c-ya

Offline bobbybhb

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Re: Welcome RoachCliff and initial help with fuel pump
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2022, 07:42:44 PM »
Good info here guys. Picture perfect
Bobby B 1488

Offline wytfut

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Re: Welcome RoachCliff and initial help with fuel pump
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2022, 04:57:11 PM »
geez a guy takes a nap and the forum site goes crazy.... LOL
That pump of yours gives me the heeby geebies....   

As for liners... I've done a couple of different "kits". The liner removal kits are very caustic.... scary strong. Did Darin Owens tank with it, and had it duct tapped good. Still leaked a tiny bit, around pump hole, and took paint off immediately. As for the liners. Jamie Jones says the red liner is the best, referring to the red liner that is somewhat flexible when applied I believe. I did a bike last winter with the the "dragons blood" liner, and I don't think I'll use it again. It get very hard, and I'd think it would separate from the sides of the tank, to create troublesome pockets.

I like what Greg says and will not posssibly use a liner any more. If I get one that is loosing its liner, I'm going to clean the tank up with a handful of washers, and call it good. As long as you ride the bike and use good fuel, rust shouldn't be a problem. Like he says, the japanese bikes I've fooled with, don't have liners, and they are easy to clean up.
Bruce
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Offline EBRXCELMOTUSIOR

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Re: Welcome RoachCliff and initial help with fuel pump
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2023, 11:10:12 AM »
I had a conversation the other day with a former mechanic at the former Joe Harrison EH(San Antonio, TX). He told me that they found the fuel pump from a late model Ford Escort would work in these bikes. Has anybody else tried this?

Offline Donkey Hotey

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Re: Welcome RoachCliff and initial help with fuel pump
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2023, 03:03:09 PM »
It would not surprise me. I just did a casual search for Escort Fuel Pump on eBay and the results certainly look just like ours. Our fuel pump was not designed just for our motorcycles. The people who would know are the aftermarket suppliers like I posted earlier in this thread.

The components that have me concerned are the plastic fuel pressure regulator manifolds. I have a number of them that are cracked and leaking (causing a loss of fuel pressure). I know that some Buells used the same plastic regulator body but, Buell fuel pump assemblies fetch a fortune on ebay and are going to be just as old and tired as ours.
Greg

1525 since 2000 (Molly) 1989 since 2012 (Jennie) 0333 since 2015 (Beulah) 1663 since 2017 (Deadwood)
0738 since 2018 (Babe) 1940 since 2019 (Sinclair) 1555 since 2022 (Genesis)0315 since 2022 (Freedom)

Offline wytfut

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Re: Welcome RoachCliff and initial help with fuel pump
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2023, 10:12:09 AM »
The Ford Escort fuel pump debate has been around since the door closed at the factory.

It does work.

But the debate comes from, is the pressure accurate for our bikes? It is to much or too little.

As we as owners are all very full of pride of our beautiful machines, there has been a lot of semi heated discussions over this fuel pump.

I'm not going to recommend it, but I will admit, I'm a small budgeted guy, I'd probably give it a try. Especially at the price of the OEM pumps for our bikes.

Also note, the oil filter also works from the same escort. As Ford hasn't produced the escort in years, I'm wondering when the parts manufacturers are going to quit making these parts.
Bruce
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Offline EBRXCELMOTUSIOR

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Re: Welcome RoachCliff and initial help with fuel pump
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2023, 09:27:11 AM »
While digging around the internet to find a source for Buell P/N#P0019.02A8(The fuel regulator housing that appears to be the same part on our Excelsiors), I found this regulator housing that AAGUAARD MOTO has developed for the later model Buell XB fuel pump assembly. I was wondering if this part could somehow be adapted to work with our Excelsior fuel pump assembly?

Offline wytfut

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Re: Welcome RoachCliff and initial help with fuel pump
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2023, 05:56:45 PM »
Looks possible. But until had it on my hands I wouldn't promise anything.
Bruce
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