Author Topic: Bike went dead - solution anyone?  (Read 1684 times)

Offline Sidecar

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Bike went dead - solution anyone?
« on: April 29, 2024, 12:05:05 PM »
Hi there, I just had a peculiar experience. I just tried to fire up my bike without success - anytime I want to engage the starter, the entire bike goes dark! Not sure what's happening here. Fuses appear to be OK. Battery is new and full charged. I also noticed that disconnecting the battery and reconnecting brings everything back to life.  :o All lights are back on, instruments are illuminated, fuel pump is humming etc. When I press the starter button, same thing again - bike goes out, as I would pull the "plug". Hmm, any food for thoughts?

Best regards

Mark
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Excelsior-Henderson SuperX #1645
Harley Davidson FLTRX 2010
Boss Hoss ZZ502 2006

Offline EBRXCELMOTUSIOR

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Re: Bike went dead - solution anyone?
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2024, 08:41:02 PM »
Check your grounds. Maybe a messed up starter relay?

Offline Sidecar

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Re: Bike went dead - solution anyone?
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2024, 07:08:48 AM »
Which one is the starter relay and where is that relay located? Is there an easy way to reach the relay? Best regards Mark
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Excelsior-Henderson SuperX #1645
Harley Davidson FLTRX 2010
Boss Hoss ZZ502 2006

Offline wytfut

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Re: Bike went dead - solution anyone?
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2024, 10:31:48 AM »
To keep this simple....lets call the "relay" the "solenoid". I'm old school, and printed words tend to confuse me. As there are 3 relays also under the "faux oil tank" electric cover. One of which also deals with starting.

Don't let this confuse you. The solenoid, is under this cover too.

Read all these instructions while next to the bike before you jump in, at least once. Make sure you know what I'm writing about here. It'd be more likely a bit easier if you have a copy of the parts catalog to look at. (its out there on CD, lemme know if you'd like a copy, I'll burn one, you pay for postage)

Unless you've done some customizing on that cover (I don't recommend) , you will be attempting a bit harder job than a normal simple fixes.

This does sound like a possible solenoid issue, but I strongly suggest checking battery connections at both ends. As suggested above, it could be the ground. Notoriously, the factory placed that bolt with loctite, and that product isn't very conductive. Either way, you'll have to pull that cover off.

I've had many a tussle with the battery cables on the battery. I cannot stress enough, that they maybe corroded, or not TIGHT enough. It can be surprising with just a touch more tweak and the problems go away. If your X still has the factory cables on it, I'd seriously look at getting the updated ones. The OEM cables are just too stiff and too short.

To access that cover, you'll need to pull the rear head exhaust pipe/header and heat shields. The cross over pipe can be challenging....just be patient, and fool around with it, it'll come off. It can be done on the ground, but is much easier on a lift (I've got a cranky back).

Then you'll have access to the cover. I think there are 4 allen heads/button heads holding it on,.... one is down low and easy to miss on the left side. Make sure you pull the dip stick before removing.

Once that cover is off, you'll be able to see everything. Mounted on the left side is the solenoid... it'll have a red rubber cover over it. Hopefully its just a loose nut. Good time here to check tightness on those battery cables.

Inside this area of the electrical box, on the bottom, just right of center, in the case is the grounding bolt. You'll see 2 way too small ground wires attached to it. Since you are there, if it hasn't been done already, take both of those grounding wires off and replace with something bigger, with less resistance (I strongly recommend this). Also clean that bolts threads while you are at it, and the threads into the case.

After you've checked all that, give it a whirl, and try to crank the motor. You can do this either by turning on ignition and hitting the button or jumping across the low amp poles on the solenoid, with the igntion switch off. Is X in neutral... umm?

 When doing this test, one of those 3 relays on the back of box, should click if ignition switch is on.

If the solenoid appears to test bad.... Give Mike Seastrome at EHparts.net a call. Last I knew there were a shortage of OEM left. If he or the late Jamie Jones haven't come up with a good replacement, I'd strongly suggest going to your local lawn mower shop and show/tell them what you have got. This has been done successfully in the past.

If this is all well and good, you'll be on the hunt for a direct short somewhere in the wiring an up to the starter button, and/or the ignition switch.

This may all sounds foreboding and scary here in print. It really isn't as bad as this appears. Just takes time and patience..... reserve sometime to do this, with no urgency.

Every step listed above, take a shot cranking it over. In jumping down this road, its very possible it was something simple you did along the way.

good luck, and let us know how it went. If any of this is confusing, come on back. Greg, Mike, and I are more than willing to help any X owners out there cornered.

Our common goal is to keep these beauties on the road.

Bruce
flatlanderhelpingXworld

Ive edited this post/answer about 6 times... I think I've got it
Bruce
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Offline Sidecar

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Re: Bike went dead - solution anyone?
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2024, 09:05:52 AM »
Bruce, great advice - I call the answer exhaustive and report back when I am done. Getting to the electrical components no easy task. I believe I put in a Harley Solenoid if corrupted. Also new ground cable seems a must. Have a great day!😀
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Harley Davidson FLTRX 2010
Boss Hoss ZZ502 2006

Offline Donkey Hotey

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Re: Bike went dead - solution anyone?
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2024, 12:22:09 PM »
Sounds like the grounds. The main battery ground for the starter is on top of the cast aluminum engine casing. All the grounds are under that electrical cover. Pull the rear header, the pulley cover and get in there. Take the main ground off the engine, clean it, clean the cable and reinstall. Same for the positive side. Basically what Bruce said. Just adding another vote for it.
Greg

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Offline Sidecar

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Re: Bike went dead - solution anyone?
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2024, 03:17:10 AM »
Update!

As a first step, I decided to replace the ground mesh cable (ordered item is about 20cm in length, hole about 10mm in diameter) between frame and engine block!
« Last Edit: May 17, 2024, 03:22:05 AM by Sidecar »
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Excelsior-Henderson SuperX #1645
Harley Davidson FLTRX 2010
Boss Hoss ZZ502 2006

Offline Sidecar

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Re: Bike went dead - solution anyone?
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2024, 03:24:29 AM »
What's the designation/function of the three relays left to right?
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Excelsior-Henderson SuperX #1645
Harley Davidson FLTRX 2010
Boss Hoss ZZ502 2006

Offline Sidecar

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Re: Bike went dead - solution anyone?
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2024, 03:29:28 AM »
Seems the starter solenoid is out of stock. What are the alternatives?

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Excelsior-Henderson SuperX #1645
Harley Davidson FLTRX 2010
Boss Hoss ZZ502 2006

Offline wytfut

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Re: Bike went dead - solution anyone?
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2024, 08:27:10 AM »
Mark....
Looks like you are on the right track....
Please don't take my critique badly.....  your ground is a wonderful idea... but I ran mine from the ground side of the solenoid, as the starter uses the most amps of anything on the bike. I'll readily admit, I'm not electrical engineer, but this made sense to me. If you'll notice, where you attached on back wall.... thats a very small wire used also as a ground. ....
By chance did you call or email Mike at ehparts.net? Possible he may have an idea when a "new" batch is coming. I recommend this step first. He is eager to help, although busy.
I don't know what the HD solenoid looks like or size, but you haven't chased one down to try apparently.... and thats ok. You know, I don't.
My next step would be to go to the local small motors/mower shop, and take that solenoid with you, so they can compare it to what they may have in stock. Jamie/Marty did for a while have what looked like a homebrewed/DIY solenoid mounted on piece of wood (insulator).... I think it came from a mower shop. I can't verify that. Buddy Jeff Browns solenoid went bad on the tribute X. He did for a while indeed use a lawn mower solenoid for a while with success. Believe he has one of Jamies on it now.
I'm also guessing you removed that solenoid and tested it, to determine it actually is bad?

https://xhmotorcycles.com/pages/tech/pdf/EH_Super_X_Wiring_Schematic_X.pdf        This here is the link to the electrical/wiring schematic that is on this site. If you notice top center shows these 3 relays. "power latch relay" "ignition relay" "assesory relay". Chase the wire colors, to determine which is the "ignition relay".

hope this all helps.....
Bruce
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Offline Sidecar

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Re: Bike went dead - solution anyone?
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2024, 04:10:41 PM »
Hi Bruce , Thank you for all the advice. I did reach out to Mike and he was able to help me out. Great guy. I ordered some other parts too and the ?care package? is on its way. I plan also to substitute the other two ground wires once I measured its length. I believe I should be all set very soon. Best regards Mark
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Harley Davidson FLTRX 2010
Boss Hoss ZZ502 2006

Offline Sidecar

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Re: Bike went dead - solution anyone?
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2024, 11:58:31 AM »
Stock ground cable and some alternatives!
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Excelsior-Henderson SuperX #1645
Harley Davidson FLTRX 2010
Boss Hoss ZZ502 2006

Offline wytfut

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Re: Bike went dead - solution anyone?
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2024, 08:08:58 AM »
I like those!!
Bruce
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Offline wytfut

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Re: Bike went dead - solution anyone?
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2024, 11:28:38 AM »
Side car....
I get full of myself at times, and need to apologize on my comments.
As I'm currently making a video on this very area per request of another owner.
Once I got to my electrics..... sure enough, my heavy ground I placed is no wear near the solenoid.
I ran my heavy ground from the ground connector just left of the trio..... and then to the main bolt in the case.

I do still like your heavy grounds you found. And to be honest, as long as they get to the case, I believe you are on the right track.

I'm hoping I didn't create any frustration with any readers..... my fault!!
Bruce
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