oil cooler flow rate

[steampunk]

I don't see 'flow rate" listed on any of the oil coolers I'm seeing.  But then I don't see any for the bike either- just pressure ranges. 

So a too small flow rate cooler would lead to a low oil pressure light?

Are 'plate and fin' coolers (most cars) tough enough or do 'tube and fin' coolers protect the oil tube itself better, even if the fins get bent?

[wytfut]

I no of no issues of flow rate restrictions with the 3 common coolers that have been adapted for our use.
That would be quite the crunch, to damage the cooler,and restrict oil flow... 

I've had mine on my X since '03...    With no real obvious dings...

[steampunk]

I give up: I searched the site and see East Coast coolers which I have seen photos of,  Pat Ryan Coolers which I haven't found or seen, and an 'early' cooler no longer available.

Are these the 3 you refer to?

[wytfut]

there is only 1 still being produced that I know of.... I'm sorry if I led you astray.... you were asking about flow rates... so I assumed you were asking if it was a problem.

Jamie/Martys at superxparts. Jamie has verified with his own eyes multiple times it drops oil temps 40 degrees... and it has to have a fan (included).

I don't know who Pat Ryan is..... but I'm old.... he may or may not still be involved with the X community. ...

Frank Cottone (sp?) built/designed/sold one that I believe is the same as the NFP (not for profit) oil cooler, that quite a few X's are running. It is fan assist also. It had a temp sensor that would turn on the fan as needed. I don't believe Frank is involved with X community anymore.... I haven't seen him post for quite a while... And I'm pretty sure no one is making them any more, but it wouldn't surprise me if one were to show up on ebay occasionally.

Ive heard the term east coast coolers but I don't know which one it refered to...

the 3rd is the OEM cooler.... at least that I know about...   there are some that appear on Ebay time to time. it was .... well lets just say it was ineffective as used/designed.

The fan assisted oil coolers were one of the biggest leaps for longivity of our Xs... In the early days 99-2001, they were finding Xs running temps 285 farenheit at the crank and heads. After the oil coolers and the new tunes were developed, the temps are now in oil operating temps of 235.....     To be honest here.... oil cooler is important, but if you are still running the OEM tune.... it'll still run hotter than it should.

within the community, there have been arguments on which design is the better.

I run superxparts cooler. I got way too many questions on what it was, when it was naked. So I built a bikini shroud for it. No one asks anymore. I think I'm the only one with the shroud, most X owners don't mind....

Jackie Hale is now the owner of a blue X that she purchased from an Owner that built a crash bar, that is actually the Oil cooler. I do not know how affective it is, but it sounds very unique. And possibly affective. Before that owner sold that X to Jackie, we got the ostrich hide corbin seat off of it, at a great price.

the OEM was designed to be placed hi on the down bars of the frame. It cooled but nothing near what we needed. Its black and I believe it a B and M automotive tranny by design... no matter....

You need to understand that some of my information about history, maybe vague. Things were happening east of the mississippi that us here on the flat lands never heard/knew about. Also things happened up in Minnesota....    Lots of developement type things, ideas, etc.   that I have sometimes only heard bits and pieces.

there are also general differences of opinion on some issues. For example, ethanol fuel. Some parts of the country, that is all that is available. We have had major issues with ethanol eating out the OEM liners....  But there are owners that use nothing but ethanol, with no problems. The stand of the conversations are real on both sides.  I personally won't use it, unless I know I'm going to burn it up. I won't park it any amount of time with ethanol in the tank.

When it came down to actual history of the 99-00 X.... the late Sir William was the guy to ask. He knew everything about everything dealing with X's

sorry long winded tonight...
Bruce

[blackheart]

My #307 came with the factory oil cooler, it actually mounts down low and being partially behind the fender isn't as effective as it could be.  I left it on and put a 10 row vertical jagged oil cooler on the right frame tube in series with the factory.  This helped significantly.  The superxparts cooler looks to be good, but you might also consider a fan assisted cooler from harley designed for the new M8 engine.

[steampunk]

Thanks for the replies.  Long winded is good, more info.

Oh, I was trained by the Army to do maintenance and repair at missile defense sites.  Not the star wars stuff of today, mostly close in work like the Hawk system.  Or the antique NIKEs.  Some on the newer at that time turbine Pershings.

Frankly, the east coast cooler is 10% of what I paid for the bike.  I have a degree in classics but I want this for a hobby/ride bike, not show or museum.  I'll park it in the main room for looks after it stops running, hopefully not for a long time.  For 1% I get a 12 fin, 6X11 plate cooler w/o a fan.  With usually only a few 90 degree days here in MI and no down south trips planned I am tempted to see how it works in this clime. 

I wonder if I got one of those laser temperature readers if the external engine casings/heads would give a meaningful temp.  Or there was mention of an easy temp guage install: was that Jumper?

[wytfut]

A lot of the owners when we realized the hi temps were running around with lasers...

And manual temp guages were an issue due to vibrations rattling them loose at the connector.

[rt66john]

Just my 2 cents:

In my time with Super X bikes, I've run across two coolers in use by most owners.

Super X Parts = Jamie/Marty = East Coast cooler:  A lot of owners have these coolers on their bikes with no issues.  It's pricey, but effective.  It includes the cooler, a custom made bracket, Spal fan, lines, and fittings to be a DIY install.  As far as I can tell, it uses the B&M Super Cooler p/n 70265, rated for 7500 BTUs.  Most everyone I know with this setup leaves the cooling fan on all of the time.

MN Super X Cooler:  Marketed by a guy who doesn't appear to be in the Super X game anymore.  I think this cooler is modeled after the so called "Not For Profit (NFP)" cooler.  This one also used custom brackets and a Spal fan.  This is the one I have in the Chicagoland area.  This setup appears to use the larger B&M 70273 cooler rated at 15000 BTUs.  Well, that's the cooler I bought when I pieced mine together.  Unlike most, I don't run the fan all of the time.  I will if it's hot outside, or if I get caught in traffic and can't shut the bike off.

The B&M website didn't list flow rates for either cooler.

I've also seen a few of the Jagg brand coolers banded to the engine guard, and one that has a huge cooler and fan combo.  Curiously, this one ran over 60,000 miles on the original stator.

[steampunk]

Thanks for the info.

Yeah, I heard the MN X guy was Jones.  My bike has updates from there.

I decided to go with the 1% first: 6x11 but only 3/4 thick.  $2 of 3" angle brackets to the cross member and some automotive shock absorber rubber washers out of the cabinet.  A few plastic ties. If it proves strong enough I think the large surface area and narrow depth will dissipate heat well. I'll be sure to carry a tube to splice the hoses if it leaks.  Or the oil light comes on.

Any symptoms I should watch for as to flow rate?  How would I know if oil pressure goes too high?

Haven't found a combination oil pressure/ oil temperature sensor and gauge that will fit the block's oil pressure sensor port.  Or even one or the other only.  Gauges are good, much better than idiot lights.

 If it doesn't hold up I see some 2% solutions . . .

[2CoolWheels]

  When I bought 901, it already had a Jegs cooler mounted to the left side of the frame, and another mounted down in front of the starter. Bruce and I could not identify the manufacturer, but it seemed to be similar to the ones that Atlantic sells. It did not have a forced-air fan, so I came up with a solution.
  I walked into the local vacuum cleaner repair store to buy some bags for my wife's Kirby. On the counter was a stack of computer power supply cooling fans. They were $3 each, so I figured I had little to loose. I mounted two of the behind the cooler on 901 and secured them with small plastic spacers (available at most small hardware stores) and zip ties. Those fans have been on 901 since late 2012 or early 2013 and are wired to run continuously. I have been through dust, severe thunder storms, 20 degree weather as well as 120 degree weather. They still come right on when I turn the key on and spin freely. I never thought they would last this long, but have been pleasantly surprised.
   I also installed a temperature gauge. I purchased one of the Napa Auto universal drain plugs, drilled it out, threaded it, and installed the temp sensor. It sticks out a little, but I counter-sunk it a bit so it doesn't get broken off. This way I didn't have to drill into the case or modify any other components to connect my gauge. Here is the forum post:
   http://www.ehforums.com/ehwebsite/forums/index.php?topic=803.msg2076#msg2076

[rt66john]

Any symptoms I should watch for as to flow rate?  How would I know if oil pressure goes too high?

If memory serves, the cooler is fed from the scavenge pump, not the main pump.  I've not heard of any issues with either poor flow or pressure too high/low with any cooler setup.  I'm not sure you would know either way.  The oil pressure switch in the case measures pressure from the main pump.

Here's the oil pressure gauge I use.  I got some hardware store brass fittings to get the gauge out away from the case a few inches.  I used a T fitting to face the gauge up and still be able to use the oil pressure switch for the idiot light.  The gauge isn't lit, so I can't see it at night, but it works well for a quick glance during the day.  http://www.jpcycles.com/product/352-037

[blackheart]

So on #901, how much difference does it make on temperature if you run the fans or not.  Slow traffic i can see it helping but down the road im not seeing the need if you have a cooler mounted out in the air

[steampunk]

The analog gauges do look nice.

There is a kit out there called 'top gun' witch is a digital gauge for voltage, oil temp, and water temp for 35-50 bucks.  It uses an oil drain plug for the oil temp, a blue color like it was aluminum.  Three gauge readings in one doesn't sound bad for the bucks.

To try to be clear: a T fitting can go into the oil pressure port for two feeds, both low pressure and temperature?  Wouldn't the T move the temp sensor too far from the oil circulation to get an accurate reading?  What sort of temp readings do you get?

As for oil circulation the chart I see shows the oil going from the main pump to the cylinder heads and crankshaft.  The  inner and outer scavenge pumps do appear to feed the cooler before the oil returns to the oil sump to be picked up by the pressure pump again. The cooler is on the low pressure side.

While under mine I did a good cleaning of the bottom of the crankcase: there is at least 150 square inches of aluminum engine case bottom that gets good air circulation but can be insulated by all the road grime that builds up.

[steampunk]

P.S. to rt66John,

Oh, I see, you just put a pressure gauge on a T with the low pressure switch.  Haven't had my tea yet so I was thinking you meant temp gauge there.  My misunderstanding.

Elegant install: simple and effective. And not necessary to dump the oil to install.

[2CoolWheels]

Blackheart,
 
   My fans run all the time, so I couldn't give you an accurate comparison. My oil has not got hotter than 230 degrees, even on the hottest day in traffic.