sooty rear cylinder

[steampunk]

Hi Folks,

I'm a newbie here having bought #1228 with engine #1915 from Chuck in MN late last summer.  Unfortunately a work accident ended my riding season after only 300 or so miles but they were more comfortable than my semi-old sportster.  With near 30,000 miles the bike has all the upgrades, mostly from John's Repair in LaSeur, MN.  It even has a site glass on the oil pump cover. (any info on where the oil should be in the glass?)
    Doing winter maintenance I noted the rear cylinder spark plug was wet and black!  Alarming!  But I noticed that overnight the plug dried leading me to suspect gas rather than oil fouling (opinions?)  With the exhaust off I noted heavy black soot in the exhaust port.  The front cylinder plug was a nice tan and little to no soot in the exhaust port.  It was running on NGK plugs and Denso coils (#129700-4070)  The coils both show 12.5 resistance, slightly above the manual's 11.75-12.25.  There is an apparently nearly new oxygen sensor. The non-mufflers are 18" short shots without baffles or packing, just a 6" spark arrestor with several large holes drilled in it.  The bike started at 2200 rpm, slowed to 1100 rpm fairly quickly, then hit a 900 rpm idle when fully warmed up (say 20 miles). The gas milage (premium)seemed poor. The engine heaved fore and aft alarmingly at idle but steadied with increased rpm.

Since the motor mounts were all overtorqued to 80 ft.lbs. and had incorrect hardware I replaced the mounts with all OEMs and corrected the hardware issues (missing front spacer and rear washer)

    Removing the rear coil I found it had a split/deteriorated spark plug boot.  Looking inside the boot at the coil to plug contacts they appeared corroded (alloy?) or at least jammed with debris. The engine casing and cylinders were so spotless I suspect it was steam or pressure washed and that pushed water/debris up the deteriorated boot. I cleaned the coil to plug contacts out and found another coil to plug boot.  I used dialectic grease on the new Champion 809's and the coil boot.

    I brushed as much soot as possible (brass wire brush) out of the exhaust port.  I added 12" baffles and one layer of packing to the short shots.  The old gaskets look so good (the nuts on the studs were barely snugged) I am tempted to re-use them though I have new ones (Does the make me a couple dollars wise and hundreds foolish?)

I did a compression check at room temp and got 155 front and 145 rear which is mid-range specs. What difference would a warmer engine make?  (How do you take gas tank, coils, and plugs off a hot engine?)

Does it sound like I have covered my bases or are there other things I should be looking at over the wet, black plug that dries and sooty cylinder?

[wytfut]

Sounds like you have a stuck injector (stuck open)...  Grime, what ever...

Either clean it yourself or, exchange both with Jamie/Marty at superXparts.com...   

FlatlanderssupportingXworld
Bruce

[wytfut]

Also.... That site glass is a very cool look...   But it means absolutely nothing. I know from personal experience....

Do the dip stick dance (do our know it? If not ask and I'll let you know..

Bruce

[steampunk]

Thanks for considering my issue.

I took the injectors out and they had equal resistance mid-spec.  Considering the leakage/stuck issue I removed the fuel rail, removed and inspected the injectors, and replaced the bottom O-rings when re-installing. 

To test them I was wondering if turning on the key so the fuel pump set pressure and see if it kept running with the engine off.  Would that work?  It is fairly easy to get at the injectors with most of the bike assembled.

I also looked at some $35 aftermarket injectors.  Too good a deal?

[steampunk]

Oh yeah, the dance?

I do remember the warm-up, stand up section in the manual.  If that's it i'll have to review it.  If not . . .

[wytfut]

I'm no electrical wizard, but I believe you shooting the injectors with your volt meter only tells you if the injector will operate, and not if it is plugged..... I could be wrong....
I do like your little test with the injector out of the intake idea....   that MAY be the way to find out.
A little side note: I just saw a few weeks ago, a process to clean out injectors just like ours on youtube...  and it looked to me to be very effective. involved 12 volts, and a syringe with some solvent.

the dip stick dance....
first you need to recognize, that your X will not keep 4 fresh quarts of oil in it. When you do an oil change, you'll have to know your machine and figure exactly how much oil your X likes to run on. A good starting place for me is around 3 quarts and 6 oz.  ... Not to worry if you put 4 quarts in, your X will puke out what it doesn't like. If you crankcase vent line has not been removed from air cleaner, to another remote spot (behind the rear tire is the favored spot), pull your air cleaner and get that excess oil off of it....   plugged air filter can cause issues

Next you need to know, your X will never drain the last quart.... so don' t worry about not getting a full 4 quarts in your X. On an oil change your X will have about 4 quarts and some odd oz.

lastly.... if you do not have the pick up tube update on your X.... never warm it up on the kick stand. Its been proven several times that on the kick stand that the engine will cavitate air... not a good thing.

lets begin..... its really not that tough, just unusual...
straddle the X to keep it up right. start it up. Run at least 2,500 rpms on warmed up oil, for 45 seconds.
shut the X off, put on side stand, and pull your dip stick, wipe it off, and put back into tube for true reading when you pull it out again. If the oil is on any of the hash marks, you're good.
Several owners may respond or ponder my answer here, as there are a couple of different dip sticks and with hash marks in different heights. My take is if it is on the hash marks you're good to go.

Why this process? Because of the design of how our X's are chambered... the oil settling, will not be anywhere near the dip stick.  Running the engine, will pull up the oil into the the correct chamber, and you'll get your correct reading on the dipstick.

As owners we for the most part know, that even though the company went to great lengths to work out all of the bugs on our X's, they are still in a sense proto types. I look at the total number produced, as a big clue.

If you have slash cut mufflers and you live in a retirement village, I don't suggest you check your oil everyday on the way to work early in the morning... LOLOLOL

Bruce

[wytfut]

forgot to ask....
did you actually test those spark plugs to see if they really were firing?

AND Steam??
I apologize.... I forgot to welcome you to X world.... they are great machines, and one of kind. I hope you enjoy it as much as the rest of us do.

Bruce

[steampunk]

Ah yes, picking names:  Steampunk.  I tried to attach a photo of my custom tank paint.  '
Gearhead' might be more appropriate but steampunk is more current and I do operate a '30s Red Top Steam boiler that heats a couple buildings.

I think you are correct that the resistance reading doesn't guarantee operation for coils or injectors.  I'll have to look into injectors more, especially that U-tube video if I can find it.

I think Chuck is back from vacation this week so I can check with him what type of oil and grease his shop uses so I can match up.  If he didn't use synthetic and I do will I have to do 2 or more oil and filter changes to be sure to have all one type of oil?

I'm the Landlord as far as the slash cut shorties go, but I don't want to be the morning alarm clock either   

[wytfut]

Nice paint... Very cool

As for changing over to synthetic (I strongly urge you only use syn)...      I'm a bit of a tight wad, and that is funny...
If you aren't going to pound a bunch of miles on during season, I'm a believer in no harm.
Syn oil is pricey... Hate seeing it poured out, went it still has good color

[steampunk]

Yes, my oil looks good, probably changed when Chuck got it back a year ago and then just moved it around the shop till I put 300 on it so no rush to change.  The oil filter isn't on the cross-reference list (parts master #61365) which googles as a transmission filter.  But Chuck sold these bikes for a few years so I figure he should know what works.  Again, I'll give him a call once he has had time to settle in from vacation.

[wytfut]

the filters are on the cross reference list....
and somebody back in the early days determined which filters to use grading toward quality.....
Wix best, napa (is wix)...   etc. etc. ....

http://www.excelsiorhenderson.com/pages/tech/pdf/EH_Replacement_Parts_Cross_Reference_X.pdf

and if that oil in your X is unknown or NOT synthetic... I wouldn't ride it, until I knew it was synthetic. Our X's run hot. too hot for dinosaur oil....

[steampunk]

Morning,

Jumping back in this discussion a bit I return to testing the fuel injectors. 

Taking them out of the engine and then hooking them up to the fuel pump and electrical to see if they leak was not what I was thinking.  First, would the injector then need to be grounded to the engine or at least something?  Second, bringing misted fuel and electricity in that close of proximity scares the hell out of me.  When the injector is in the engine there is a metal barrier between the gas and electric, not so when off engine.  I might be a  little biased on the issue having had a relative die in a garage fire and explosion from just missing with a little gas when filling a hot lawn tractor.  I'm thinking if I could hook the compressor to the injector off the bike with the regulator set to 50 lbs. and see if it leaked air?

My original idea was to leave the injector in the bike, turn the ignition on to run the fuel pump, but not start the engine.  Then, wait and see if the fuel pump runs off and on to maintain pressure.  If the pump does run then fuel must be leaking somewhere or the pump isn't holding pressure.  Then pull plugs to see if they are wet.  On paper this sounds good, but that may just be because of things I don't know. 

Anyway, I need to do some more homework on injectors as I have time and your suggestions to my wasted fuel issue are helpful.

By the way, what does 'wytfut' stand for Bruce?

Craig

[2CoolWheels]

Hi Steampunk,
   Your fuel pump does not cycle on and off based upon pressure. So if you had a leaking injector, the pressure would simply drop. Try putting a pressure gauge on the fuel rail. I also think your idea of placing 50 lbs of air pressure to the injector is a good one, far less risky than fuel.
   The best source of information on the fuel injection system on these bikes is Jamie Jones at Atlantic Excelsior-Henderson in Virginia. Nobody knows these bike better, and Jamie is a very cool guy, willing to help out.
   

[2CoolWheels]

BTW Steampunk, there is a "Steampunk Super-X" that was created for the TV show "Out of the Badlands". It was a Deadwood Special at one time.

[steampunk]

So you got me looking at you tube videos and they all seemed to just blow carburetor cleaner (one guy was using brake cleaner?) through the injector.  The issue seemed to be attaching to the top of the injector. 

I just put the injectors back on the fuel rail and then used shrink tubing to attach the cleaner tube to the fuel rail inlet: much less size reduction needed.  Not near 50 lbs. pressure for leak detection but both injectors worked properly powered by a 9 volt. 

When I look at my photo I still think the flammable cleaner and battery were a little too close.

I guess it is back to youtube to figure a way to check whether the coil is firing (it must be some or the cylinder exhaust port wouldn't even be black and sooty, just wet.

I have talked to Jamie and Marty, usually Marty and bought a couple parts from them but they are in business and I can't expect them to give their hard earned knowledge away every time I'm trying to figure something out.  I'll just go begging here on the forum . . .

The steampunk bike is quite the bobber.  My bike is nearly an 'assembled' bike apparently.